Dear Maryn and Annika, I loved this podcast because it speaks to my heart in many aspects. When people come to me wanting to be a doula and ask me what it takes to do this work, my main point is “presence”. Doula comforting techniques are not difficult to learn and one can learn the basics of physiology of birth quite easily. What is not easy in this work is how to be present in your own body so that you can be totally available for another woman while she softens and opens for birth. Another very difficul thing for doulas, especially, is having to deal with the other providers in the room. Hospital births tend to be the toughest for a number of reasons. I work a lot on my non-violent communication skills so that the mother is the least distressed by these outside matters. Anyway, what I want to say is that what you have said about “flow” in the context of undisturbed birth makes total sense to me. We have been trained so much to be in our thinking analytical brain (lett side of the brai) that it seems that the other aspects and qualities that we can only access through the right side of the brain are less important. But these qualiteis are those necessary for labor and birth! Being in touch with our intuition is how we can be in our best “position” as a birth attendant. Then when action and skill are needed, we will act from a place of genuine authentic action, not a reaction based on fear, or wanting to fix anything. When there is total presence, there is simply awareness and we will simply know what to do, then we don’t overdo or intefere with the process inappropriately. Yes, the inner work must be done by birth workers that really want to work with women who take responsibility for their journeys and “don’t just want to be saved” by the system, the doctor ot their midwife or doula even. Working how to be in our own bodies, letting go of our own tensions, emotions and trauma stored in our pelvis and systems is of extreme importance. If I may share, I have witnessed a shift in my own body (and obviously in my practice as my path as a midwife unfolds) as I have been meditating consistently for the past years, working with prayer and especially working with my female body, organs and energy. For me, there is this ancestral calling for healing our femininity, our divine feminine, whatever you want to call it. And it is real. And it starts in my body, as I open my womb and heart. Only then am I able to walk with women and totally BE with them in a state of presence when they give birth. I hope this makes sense!